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X-Muslim Blog Roundup #1

Welcome to the first edition of the X-Muslim Blogs Roundup! This will be held regularly, and will be an enjoyable survey of the chatterings of the ex-Muslim blogosphere.

Introduction

I am sure that, by now, you will have come across discussions of the Secular Islam Summit on various blogs and media outlets, and the release by its delegates of an all-important St. Petersburg Declaration. This time is as good as any other to showcase the very few but growing number of voices that make up the ex-Muslim blogosphere.

Ex-Muslims have a bad rep. In Muslim circles, those ad hominems fly thick and fast when even mere mention is made of their existence. For example, there are numerous "progressive" Muslim blogs that, while having achieved much respect across the blogosphere, happily take up this more regressive attitude when discussing former Muslims, and their view of the SI Summit was no exception. Conspiratorial Muslims generally demonise their "fallen" brothers and sisters both in public and in private, as if they were secret agents constantly scheming and plotting away, with each and every one briefed and sent by the devil himself.

But ex-Muslims are people. And most of them are very good, caring people. Many of them have families and friends who remain Muslims, but, of course, still care just as much about them, if not more. And one big reason for ex-Muslims' even deeper empathy with their Muslim families and friends is their worry about what manner of dark alleys the faith will lead them to. Many things can be said about ex-Muslims but at the end of the day, while they may have enduring disputes with central aspects of Islam itself, they are as pro-Muslim as one can get.

The Roundup

One of the Muslim critiques of ex-Muslims is that their primary identity is de facto negative i.e. they go around parading themselves as being not of Islam. Isaac Schrodinger says this point entirely misses the, well, point. For ex-Muslims, it may or may not be true that it is primary (whatever that means), but it is not the whole. Here's an excerpt:

I don't take pleasure in continually going over a wretched ideology. Just take a look at the categories I use for my blog. I want to write in detail about the Pakistani cricket team and the upcoming World Cup; the bad effects of a minimum wage, either local or global; the symbolic meaning behind the word marathon; how my early years in Lahore were so serene; who should be the villain for Kal-El in the sequel to Superman Returns; link to spectacular HDR images; talk about the motherboards that go well with the Intel Core 2 Duo (look at ASUS and Gateway, by the way) and so on.

I can choose to do all of that and ignore the daily misery that Islam brings. But I know that ignoring it won't make it go away. The war is here and now whether I like it or not. Westerners must be provided clarity on this great issue. That is the purpose of my voice. That is why I blog. That is why I rail against Islam. For it deserves a good railin'.

...

Being a murtad or an apostate is part of the identity for an ex-Muslim. A mussulman who becomes a Christian can call himself a convert to Christianity as well as an apostate. Both terms are valid. Somehow, I don't think the rhetoric would bother him as much as the fact that Muslims want to kill him.

As Isaac Schrodinger patiently explains in his post, those who have intellectually deconverted from Islam tend to do so on grounds that their former faith restricts their outlook on exploring more humanistic, life-affirming identities. Being an ex-Muslim is a starting identity, not an end point in itself; it is the undertaking of a journey that the mere contemplation of which invites outright fear for practising Muslims. Ordinarily, defection from many religions does not pay a heavy price, in which case a decision to go ahead and leave the religion does not tell you anything significant about the person defecting because the religion itself is non-strict. With Islam, however, the command to stay within the faith is done under pain of death. Ex-Muslims are not fantasising about reality, because they do not suffer deluded notions of Islam being inherently peaceful. And so the ex-Muslim label conveys something significant about the courage of someone who has begun a journey under that starting identity.

In the same vein, The Apostate makes this point very clearly:

Now that I am no longer a Muslim and don’t live in a Muslim country, my connection with Islam does not suddenly disappear, nor do my grievances against what it has done to my life evaporate. I have built a new and better life in the U.S., but I’ve paid a heavy price: I’ve lost my family, I’ve given up all right to public security or the government’s support in my native country, I’m committed to lying about my religious status in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (where my family lives, whom I have not seen in 4 1/2 years) or foreswear visiting these countries that I called home for most of my life, I’m condemned to never have full acceptance in my own culture, by my own people.

These are not random events which are nobody’s fault, that nothing is responsible for. All this is Islam and Muslims’ fault.

Another post from Isaac Schrodinger details one of his many encounters with traditional teaching methods from when he was a student in Saudi Arabian classrooms:

"No sir, please, I promise sir, I won't do it again. P-l-e-a-s-e sir."

His pleas made no difference. Our English teacher had a vise-like grip on the left wrist of that student. A few days before we had a brief English test. That student got 5 out of 10. Like everybody else, he had to get the signature of one of his parents. Which he did, after he had changed that "5" to an "8". Now, the student was fruitlessly attempting to avoid the customary thrashing.

The teacher held the wrist of the student with his left hand and with his right hit the student multiple times; on the head, the face, the neck, a few punches on the ribs. I sat in front of the class, a few feet away from the entire revolting episode.

I cannot resist relaying a personal episode when I was about 7 years old, which took place here in good ol' England. I used to regularly attend a class after school to learn to recite the Koran, and we all sat cross-legged on the floor. One day, one of my friends mispronounced one of the Arabic words as he went through a verse. The large, bearded, and rather strict teacher, who had been listening intently, told him to stop. He quietly stood up and then slowly but surely placed each foot on both of the student's knees until my friend was carrying the teacher's entire body weight. The rest of us stared in abject fascination, appalled. As the teacher balanced on my friend's knees, he then bounced up and down slightly. My friend was in tears.

I always took extra care not to mispronounce any Arabic word after that.

The Apostate, one of the newer ex-Muslims on the block, can perhaps be described as a sceptical feminist. This is her thought-provoking post on the question of how willing Muslim women actually are in not being slaves to their men:

 I don’t think we owe Muslim women anything. And I don’t think they want our help. They make it abundantly clear every time they open their mouths on the issue. Those of them who agree with us leave their religion or their homelands and come live with us and live like us - i.e., they don’t wear a universally recognized symbol of women’s oppression on their heads. They don’t impose a chastity belt on their sexuality. They don’t defer to men - in anything. The rest of them don’t want liberation, and we should let them be.

Muslim women are not the victims of Muslim men. They mostly choose to belong to Muslim men. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be so incensed that we seek to inform them they don’t have to belong to anyone. They see it as imperialism. Fine. Muslims have always been touchy on the subject of learning from their betters, so let’s let them stew in their misery. They’ll get fed up soon enough and actually decide to do something about it - do something that doesn’t involve touting Islam as the solution to all their ills. As if anything could take them farther from freedom than an explicitly patriarchal religion.

I have an interest in helping people who show some inclination to help themselves. If there is absolutely no recognition of their responsibilities and no interest in self-development or even in self-preservation at a higher level than where the next meal is coming from - I’m sorry, I’m not much inclined to waste my energy on you.
Here's one more excerpt from another of her typically well-written posts on some of the changes she has encountered as a result of the fact she has left home far behind: 
Today, while in the elevator with a man, I noticed the fact of being in an elevator with a man. And not feeling nervous in the slightest. Or even noticing it, even vaguely registering it in the back of my mind. This is significant because I used to be terrified of getting into elevators in case men got on, and I wouldn’t enter elevators if there was a man already in there. And if ever, perchance, I happened to be alone with a man, trapped for another 30 seconds, I would near-panic.

The fear was sexual assault. And it wasn’t ungrounded. I wasn’t the only woman I knew who felt or acted this way about men and secluded spaces.

This in turn reminds me of when Shazia Mirza, the British stand-up comedian, once seriously remarked that when she went to Mecca on pilgrimage, she found on separate occassions that as she walked right next to the Kaaba, her bum was pinched no less than three times. For real. Not until did she happen to publicise it for the first time in one of her routines, did Muslim women come to report to her that they had also been through the same. (The joke part was that she was going to gather them all together, and they were going to go on pilgrimage again next week).

Muslihoon, an ex-Muslim and a convert to Christianity, has a good post on how Muslim immigrants have generally helped to maintain the tension between individualism and collectivism in Western societies: 

What may be further nauseating is that still we, the West, are accused of devaluing people, of cheapening people’s worth and lives. They cannot see that the very fact a person may prostitute oneself in wanton sex if he or she so desires precisely underscores the value we place on a person and his or her life: so valuable is that person and his or her life that we dare not interfere in how he or she seeks enjoyment and meaning, even if it means doing completely idiotic things.

A child can do anything he or she wants: become an engineer, become an artist, become a dahipb designer, become an astronaut, even become President of The United States. His or her decisions are not determined by his or her parents or society. Unto each person is given a blank book to fill in, not a sheet within which to fill in the blanks.

And finally, yours truly has a post on the suburban mujahideen in our cities:

"I think you're hysterical", I say.

"Hysterical? Hysterical? What about our Muslim sisters and children in Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan? Tell me, are they stupid to be hysterical about their situation? Especially when an apostate aids the kuffar in abusing their dignity and livelihoods? Do you expect us to just sit back and ignore our Muslim sisters being ripped of their honour at the dirty hands of the kuffar? Do you expect us to stay silent and instead dance to Bush and Blair's tune? Tell me!"

"You're misguided, aren't you?"

"This is a Muslim area. Get out", says one of his comrades.

"Actually, sunshine, this is my country."

And we come to the end of this first edition of the X-Muslim Blog Roundup. We'll have another one up in a couple of weeks. I have tentatively decided to make the Carnival a fortnightly occurence. This may change because the ex-Muslim blogosphere is rather small, and this will no doubt affect the rate of involvement. But we'll see. The blogosphere is very fertile ground for up-and-coming ex-Muslims, primarily because it easily preserves anonymity while generating attention about one's views and experiences as an ex-Muslim. And things like this Carnival will be an extra reason for them to see they are not alone.

 

 If you happen to be an ex-Muslim blogger and would like to submit any links to your posts, then you are most welcome to email me through the website.

Thanks for reading and do check back in a fortnight!

 

Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 at 04:38PM by Registered CommenterX.Muslim | Comments65 Comments | References9 References

References (9)

References allow you to track sources for this article, as well as articles that were written in response to this article.

Reader Comments (65)

Hey, I appreciate the excerpts! I'm sorry I haven't had time to respond to your email - I actually read it this morning, and noticed I'd missed the deadline. I'm glad you've been reading and felt free to pick stuff out to quote.

I just wanted to say thanks and to reiterate that you can, naturally, reproduce material from my blog - whatever takes your fancy - and I'll be grateful for the publicity.

One post that I would like to volunteer is Islam's Lolita. I'm kind of proud of that one.

Thanks again.

Best wishes,
apostate
March 13, 2007 | Unregistered Commenterapostate
I'm one of the Muslims who mocked this silly gathering of non-entities and malcontents.

My objection is not that they are apostates or that they critique Islam, but rather that they
1) are not what they present themselves to be (i.e., they are not credible observers of Islam, much less leaders of reformers) and
2) they often don't know what they're talking about, making very basic errors (e.g., treating Muslim culture as synonymous with Islam; ignoring the huge range of interpretation within Islamic tradition and instead rattling off laundry lists of hadith and pretending that's a serious argument); and
3) they rely on lazy soundbytes that don't address the complexities of the issues (e.g., the charlatan Wafa Sultan's nonsense about Muslims and church burnings http://eteraz.org/story/2007/3/7/115222/7877)

I welcome honest, fair debate. The problem is that most of these people are cheap propagandists more interested in scoring points with outsiders at their supposed community's expense than getting at the truth, which doesn't fit into these little slogans about jihad or dhimmis.
March 13, 2007 | Unregistered Commentersvend
March 13, 2007 | Unregistered Commentersvend
Those are wonderful quotes. Welcome to the jungle... (and no, I'm not a "Guns and Roses" fan, it's just that the internet sure feels like a jungle, doesn't it)

And Svend, you'd cut a much more impressive figure if you'd learn to swallow your venom and be mature and gracious instead. Repeat after me, "Vive la difference!"

Was that so hard?
March 13, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterCafe Alpha
Maybe you're right. In all honesty, I don't enjoy polemics.

But do you have anything to say about their venom (which unlike mine carries enormous weight these days)?

Moreover, have they earned circumspect treatment from their Muslim critics? I don't see these people making any attempt to be civil or objective with Muslims. Quite the contrary, they're declared war. It seems to me that these polemicists--many of whom are known for openly slandering Islam and its founder--are merely reaping what they sow.

Finally, it's hard to be diplomatic and temperate when hordes of people are hurling insults (and sometimes outright lies) at you from every direction.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered Commentersvend
Bless you who have gone from the tradition of Mohammed (what a piece of work was he!). This is one case where a personal decision is of enormous social value. If only a billion would follow.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterStillBreathing
One hears of more and more Muslims leaving Islam.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterPaul
i welcome this website because i know several former muslims who live in fear of their lives. some left islam because they disliked it, some left because they found a better faith. that's the fact. why is that so difficult to accept or understand?

and, svend, one does not have to be an islamic scholar to critique islam. one does not have to be a cultural anthropologist to know that islamic-dominated cultures condone certain perversions (like killing those who leave the faith, for one). one does not have to understand the technical definition of "jihad" to understand that muslims want to kill in the name of islamic jihad. when muslims say they want to kill me and my family, that's all the info i need to understand what it ts all about.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered Commenterabu yussif
I myself am an Ex-Christian (I am now an atheist), though I choose to live in peace with the Christians around me. It is sad to see that so many Ex-Muslims do not have the option of living in peace with other Muslims, as Islamic law itself mandates that Ex-Muslims be killed at worst and harassed at best! We non-Muslims should welcome and celebrate the bravery of Ex-Muslims, and shame on all Muslims for Islam is truly a religion of murderers and losers.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterSuprKufr
"But do you have anything to say about their venom (which unlike mine carries enormous weight these days)?"

People who claim to be completely powerless, like you are, tend to be looking for an easy excuse. Violence is the same, oppression is the same, even when the people guilty pretend to themselves that they are powerless. It's a childish trick.

"Moreover, have they earned circumspect treatment from their Muslim critics? I don't see these people making any attempt to be civil or objective with Muslims. Quite the contrary, they're declared war. It seems to me that these polemicists--many of whom are known for openly slandering Islam and its founder--are merely reaping what they sow."

No, actually, it's Islam that declared war on them.

You just failed cause-and-effect.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterCafe Alpha
i still remember 9/11, it wasnt a fringe group that did it, it was mainstream, something like 2/3 of muslims openly supported this.

it my be close minded and islamaphobic,

i learned everything i needed to know about islam on 9/11.
March 14, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterEyesWideOpen
Svend,you've got a right to speak for Muslims, eh? You, a white Muslim, an anomaly if there ever was one.

My twenty years of being locked up in an apartment in the birthplace of Islam is not 'soundbytes.' Go to my blog and show me one mockingly quoted hadith. Show me where I don't appreciate the diversity of thought in Islam when I link to your WIFE as a 'thinking blogger' and even respect her readers enough to never leave a link back to my blog when I comment on hers.

You'd like to think we're shooting at a strawman. You'd like to think we're dishonest and intolerant and mere malcontents.

Here's a newsflash: I'm not a malcontent in my chosen home - I was one in Islam. To trivialize my voice because it hurts your pet prejudices does not reflect your pretension to "fair honest" debate.

And oh - you've been criticized - mildly - on my blog, if you care to read and/or respond.
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered Commenterapostate
I love guys like Svend: He welcomes open, honest debate.. meaning, of course, that you agree with everything he says. Move over, Muhammad, Svend is the latest prophet of Islam: Islam means what *Svend* says it means.
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterThe Barefoot Bum
Do I have venom for Islam? You bet I do. The subjugation of women in societies that explicitly pride themselves on their Islamic character? Check. The brutal, inhuman legal systems in these countries? Check. The pervasive poverty? Check. The mindless and intellect destroying propaganda? Check.

Do I have equal venom for the grievous sins of my own culture and nation? You be the judge:

"There are only two requirements for serving in Congress or in the executive branch of our government. These requirements apply to everyone who serves today, with only a handful of exceptions. First, you must be among the very stupidest and most cowardly of Americans. And second, you must be a war criminal -- an actual war criminal, or eager and willing to become one." -- Arthur Silber

http://barefootbum.blogspot.com/2007/03/congress-gives-bush-carte-blanche-to.html

"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man." -- Thomas Jefferson

Islam is tyranny no less than American Imperialism, and perhaps more so. I am eternally hostile to both.
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterThe Barefoot Bum
Apostate, I'd prefer not to drag innocent bystanders into my debate.

My wife's not responsible for my antics, but since you brought it up, though, I'll say that I know that she enjoys your comments and appreciates your tact, given how your blunt commentary on Islam would play with most of her other readers.

Now, I just finished a loooong discussion elsewhere (on Isaac Schrodinger's blog http://isaacschrodinger.typepad.com/isaacschrodinger/2007/03/akrams_razor_on.html) and am leery of getting into another protracted exchange, so I'm going to just say this:


All of you (forgive me for lumping you all together for the sake of convenience), while I sympathize with your experiences of intolerance and obscurantism, I don't think your diagnosis of the problem is ultimately correct, much less constructive. That's my view.

I know the problems you're talking about very well, painfully well. I'm a Sunni Muslim, but I grew up an Ahmadi (family was initially Qadiani but then switched to the lesser known but theologically more or less Sunni Lahore group) and have thus had more than my share of nasty sectarian experiences. I was an expert on "mullahs" and "takfir" long before the Western media knew the difference between Sunni and Shiah. In fact, some fundie knuckleheads wouldn't even consider me a Muslim today (because I'm unwilling to declare Ahmadis kafirs).

The Quran says that God chose to create humankind in different tribes and nations. I am not threatened by you or your beliefs. "Unto you your religion, and unto me mine."

Nor to I recognize this amalgam of stereotypes, de-contextualized facts and innacuracies that you lambaste as "Islam".

My beef is not with those who disagree with, or have concerns about, Islam and speak constructively and factually about those feelings. My quarrel is rather with people who use the media to spread fear and hatred against innocent people and encourage more needless conflict between hardliners (they exist on both sies).

Would you blame Catholics for being outraged if the MSM started parading around "critics" of Catholicism known for declaring the Vatican is the "Whore of Babylon" and that Catholics everywhere were unknowingly doing Satan's work? Or imagine if a bunch of Jewish converts to Christianity that publicly mocked Jewish tradition and faith as being primitive compared to Christianity were being promoted as "reformers" of Judaism. Well, these people aren't much more credible or fair.

A lot of people cite Bertrand Russel these days, but BR didn't join cheap, politically motivated PR campaigns against Christianity. He discussed his concerns in the appropriate forum and with respect for the beliefs of others.

Up to now, I've not been a fan of Irshad Manji but I must admit that she appears to be trying to be more balanced. For example, she refused to sign the Secular Summit's statement, feeling it was unnecessarily polarizing towards practicing Muslims. http://eteraz.org/story/2007/3/12/131714/081
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered Commentersvend
Svend:

"I don't think your diagnosis of the problem is ultimately correct, much less constructive. That's my view."

We figured out that's what your view is. How about some actual *arguments* for your view? Judging from your blog, your only "argument" seems to be that you personally don't do or believe X, and you can pull some quote out of the Koran or Hadith to support your view, therefore it's wrong to attribute that view to Islam. Your Islam is the "pure" version; it's all those pesky brown people who just *think* they live in Islamic countries who have got it wrong.

As a non-Muslim, I'm simply *not interested* in speaking "constructively", presumably to improve Islam. The Islamic religion and Islamic cultures are rotten to the core, just as the Christian religion is rotten to the core and just as any country (*cough* the USA) that pays Christianity more than blandly hypocritical lip service is rotten to the core.

If you think there are factual inaccuracies in any particular presentation of Islam, attack those inaccuracies where they occur. A vague mention here, coupled with your disgusting superiority and condescension, does nothing but demonstrate the corruption of reason which seems to be a pervasive characteristic of so-called Muslim "intellectuals".
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterThe Barefoot Bum
Wow! Good luck to you all, and be careful. I wish you every success.
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered Commenterhaakondahl
You were never Muslim. You are just a trouble maker trying to stir things up and corrupt the minds of young Muslims. Where are you really from Israel? Brooklyn? Hollywood?
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterNasser
"Islam is tyranny no less than American Imperialism, and perhaps more so. I am eternally hostile to both."

Right, and like the gutless fool you are, you hide behind the benevolence of one to protect you from the other. It's easy playing the victim, isn't it? Relieves you of any responsibility.
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterFrank
Svend
Wow, you are delusional. Islam is rooted in the 7th century and need reformation in the worst way. There are many things wrong with islam but lets just take 1 for now. The burka. The biggest symbol of opression now that the Berlin Wall has come down. How can you justify the treatment of women in islam? If islam is as accepting of other faiths as you claim then why the separate roads for non muslims in Saudi, the perverbial capital of Islam? why can i not go and build a church anywhere in the country? Why do the majority of muslims condone suicide bombers? Before you reply, please keep in mind that diversion is a debating tactic of the weak minded so before you start with the but but but christains think about how childish that is.
March 15, 2007 | Unregistered Commenterinfidel

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